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Lack of point defense in Robotech New Generation/Mospeada
Posted: 03 April 2019 04:56 PM  
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So that has been quite bugging since I watched New Generation (Mospeada to be precise).
Is there any idea why the ships in three invasions didn’t have anti-air guns to a species that mainly focus on fighters with few capital ships? I mean losing two invasion fleets might consider Admiral Hunter/Mars Base Command to add more anti-aircraft defense to their ships, or may be designed a starship whose main purpose is to deal with fighters. I can understand with no survivors to give after-action report, but this gets a bit annoying with Robotech where most of the commanders have dealt with fighters/mecha in battles.
I mean even 40k starships (despite using slaves to load cannons) and even Star Trek (despite having a singular phaser turret) have anti-aircraft system via auto-turrets and readjusted phasers respectively.

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Posted: 03 April 2019 05:13 PM   [ # 1 ]  
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New Generation/ Mospeda ships did seem to lack close-range defensive armaments. The Shimakaze class battlecruisers were an apparent exception (such as Vince Grant’s Icarus). It would seem that the armament philosophy was geared towards destroying the Invid transports before they could launch their mecha. The main defense against Invid mecha primarily were the fighters. As all of the classes seen had sizable fighter complements.

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Posted: 03 April 2019 09:08 PM   [ # 2 ]  
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Megalord1 - 03 April 2019 05:13 PM

New Generation/ Mospeda ships did seem to lack close-range defensive armaments. The Shimakaze class battlecruisers were an apparent exception (such as Vince Grant’s Icarus). It would seem that the armament philosophy was geared towards destroying the Invid transports before they could launch their mecha. The main defense against Invid mecha primarily were the fighters. As all of the classes seen had sizable fighter complements.

Thanks for your point there.
Just that a military force that usually deals with fighters-mecha not considering point defense, even for a minimal amount for lesser ships. Even with fighters, there are chances of enemies going through, as we saw on New Generation/Mospeada’s final episode.
Not sure how it was in Mospeada, but I am seeing adaptational gaps since Inbit invasion in that show was a surprise to the humans and only had little time and opportunities to develop after fleeing to other colonies.
According to this, the mecha-fighters were originally built to battles between colonies and had to be repurposed to fight Inbits.

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Posted: 03 April 2019 09:34 PM   [ # 3 ]  
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This lack of point defense/ close-range AA armaments on Most New generation/ Mospeda ships is even more puzzling, considering the more varied armaments seen on the Masters era/ Southern Cross ships, particularly missile armaments. Which the New Generation/ Mospeda ships seem to lack.

Also, that site is either down, or no longer exists.

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Posted: 03 April 2019 11:17 PM   [ # 4 ]  
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Megalord1 - 03 April 2019 09:34 PM

This lack of point defense/ close-range AA armaments on Most New generation/ Mospeda ships is even more puzzling, considering the more varied armaments seen on the Masters era/ Southern Cross ships, particularly missile armaments. Which the New Generation/ Mospeda ships seem to lack.

Also, that site is either down, or no longer exists.

(Sorry about that. Bad formatting by me. I think that should get it up and running,)
I guess that’s one issue with “stitched stories” nature of Robotech dubs.

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Posted: 04 April 2019 12:10 AM   [ # 5 ]  
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True.

And the link works now.

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Posted: 11 June 2019 03:43 PM   [ # 6 ]  
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Actually in one of the books it was said that the REF didn’t plan on fighting the invid with ships but mecha. They did state that they would shoot down the clams before they launched mecha. The problem I have with most of this was the fact that it was clear that the invid used bulk mech on a target since the Regis could clone as fast as she could make mecha.

But the information that came back to the REF failed to be heard. After beating the Regent, like when they thought the UEG could be beat by the Zentradi they not under estimated the enemy, but over estimated themselves. Hunter was always to arrogant and the REF reflected this since abandoning earth for a lost cause. Sending the SDF 3 to a planet and leaving your home world mostly defenseless says how arrogant the REF was. Gunboat deplomacy was set to fail from the start, since who wouldn’t think the Robotech Masters weren’t on there way already. Who sends a fleet to hunt 1 ship? A desprate person or in this case race. Who send a fleet to abandon a world? An Arrogant A-hole…

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Posted: 11 June 2019 08:28 PM   [ # 7 ]  
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Jst1man - 11 June 2019 03:43 PM

Actually in one of the books it was said that the REF didn’t plan on fighting the invid with ships but mecha. They did state that they would shoot down the clams before they launched mecha. The problem I have with most of this was the fact that it was clear that the invid used bulk mech on a target since the Regis could clone as fast as she could make mecha.

But the information that came back to the REF failed to be heard. After beating the Regent, like when they thought the UEG could be beat by the Zentradi they not under estimated the enemy, but over estimated themselves. Hunter was always to arrogant and the REF reflected this since abandoning earth for a lost cause. Sending the SDF 3 to a planet and leaving your home world mostly defenseless says how arrogant the REF was. Gunboat deplomacy was set to fail from the start, since who wouldn’t think the Robotech Masters weren’t on there way already. Who sends a fleet to hunt 1 ship? A desprate person or in this case race. Who send a fleet to abandon a world? An Arrogant A-hole…

First off, the books aren’t canon. Second, when the Pioneer Mission began, Earth wasn’t under any direct threat. The REF didn’t know that the Masters were already on their way. Third, Earth wasn’t mostly defenseless. The SCA had ample time to build additional ships and mecha. But they were geared for action against Zentraedi forces, not the Masters. Fourth, when it became know to the REF that Earth was under attack by the Masters, they did send in ships to join the fight. Fifth, after the war with the Masters was over, the REF/SCA forces were in no real shape to fight off a planet-wide invasion. The decision was made to withdraw forces until they could be built up enough to liberate the Earth.

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Posted: 16 June 2019 03:12 PM   [ # 8 ]  
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Something to consider in this discussion is how effective available point-defenses might actually have been against Invid Mecha.  If the point defense weapon is not effective, or deemed not effective enough, then it doesn’t make any sense to use them.  WWII bombers had various turrets for air defense, but modern bombers lack those turrets (the B-52 started with a single tail turret, but was removed later in its life).  The UEEF might have run into a situation where the Invid Mecha had out paced point defense weapons ability to handle them effectively.

IINM the only time we see anything close to a point defense weapon in NG used against the Invid was when Scott and Lunk both took turns with the ship’s forward gun to shoot at Invid mecha in “Metamorphosis”.  IIRC Scott even comments on the maneuverability of the Invid mecha he was shooting at.  Compare that to TRM era and the episode “Volunteers” when Dana/Angelo are blasting enemy mecha left and right.

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Posted: 16 June 2019 10:03 PM   [ # 9 ]  
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An example of changing weapons development and tactics can be seen from the experience of Japanese Kamikazes in WW II. In the US Navy late in the war, the 40 MM Bofors, and 20 MM Oerlikon AA guns proved not to be effective enough, in kill-stopping a determined Kamikaze pilot. The knee-jerk reaction by the US Navy was: 1. Position Destroyers well in advance or the Carrier forces, 2. Increase fighter complements on the Carriers (at expense of dive bombers [particularly the hated Curtis SB2C Helldiver]), 3. Begin a crash program to develop the rapid-fire automatic twin 3” (76 MM) AA gun mount. 4. And ultimately, postwar development of ship-launched surface-to-air missiles.

Thus:
The ships of the Macross and Southern Cross eras were more akin to US Navy ships in WW II.
Whereas the ships of the New Generation era (the Shimakaze class being an exception) were more like US Navy ships of the Cold War era.

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