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ROBOTECH Matches # 5:  the Invid interception force that killed the 21st Mars Division vs. Breetai’s “Boobytrap” Zentraedi fleet
Posted: 07 March 2019 08:01 PM  
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This time, we take a break from one-on-one mecha and pilot matches to pit larger forces against each other. 

At Reflex Point on Earth, the Invid Regis detects an incoming group of hostiles.

She deploys the exact same force as the one that destroyed the 21st Mars Division in Episode 61 of ROBOTECH (“The Invid Invasion”) into low orbit to meet the invading force.

This time, however, the invading force isn’t the 21st Mars Division, but Commander Breetai with the same Zentraedi fleet with which he arrived in Earth’s orbit in Episode 1 (“Boobytrap”).

What is the most likely outcome of this clash between Zentraedi and Invid forces?

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Posted: 07 March 2019 11:06 PM   [ # 1 ]  
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Interesting question.

The Invid forces on Earth never deployed large/heavy warships to combat the REF. They just relied on sending massive numbers of mecha into combat.

Now Breetai’s initial fleet numbered hundreds (perhaps up to a thousand) ships of various classes. Each of those ships carried hundreds, if not thousands of mecha.

Still, it’s going to boil down to a numbers game. Who’s side can afford the heavier losses. Both side are bitter enemies, and know each other well.

Breetai’s forces are going to have the firepower advantage with their ships. But the Invid will have the numbers advantage, and the defender’s advantage. Being closer to their hives, means that the Invid can send reinforcements into battle, far quicker then Breetai could bring in additional forces.

All in all, I would say ‘flip a coin’.

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Posted: 07 March 2019 11:19 PM   [ # 2 ]  
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Megalord1 - 07 March 2019 11:06 PM

Interesting question.

The Invid forces on Earth never deployed large/heavy warships to combat the REF. They just relied on sending massive numbers of mecha into combat.

Now Breetai’s initial fleet numbered hundreds (perhaps up to a thousand) ships of various classes. Each of those ships carried hundreds, if not thousands of mecha.

Still, it’s going to boil down to a numbers game. Who’s side can afford the heavier losses. Both side are bitter enemies, and know each other well.

Breetai’s forces are going to have the firepower advantage with their ships. But the Invid will have the numbers advantage, and the defender’s advantage. Being closer to their hives, means that the Invid can send reinforcements into battle, far quicker then Breetai could bring in additional forces.

All in all, I would say ‘flip a coin’.

Yeah…I was going to add that if the numbers were turning against Breetai’s force, he’d call in Khyron and Azonia (which would include Miriya).

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Posted: 08 March 2019 01:07 PM   [ # 3 ]  
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Buried Alien - 07 March 2019 11:19 PM
Megalord1 - 07 March 2019 11:06 PM

Interesting question.

The Invid forces on Earth never deployed large/heavy warships to combat the REF. They just relied on sending massive numbers of mecha into combat.

Now Breetai’s initial fleet numbered hundreds (perhaps up to a thousand) ships of various classes. Each of those ships carried hundreds, if not thousands of mecha.

Still, it’s going to boil down to a numbers game. Who’s side can afford the heavier losses. Both side are bitter enemies, and know each other well.

Breetai’s forces are going to have the firepower advantage with their ships. But the Invid will have the numbers advantage, and the defender’s advantage. Being closer to their hives, means that the Invid can send reinforcements into battle, far quicker then Breetai could bring in additional forces.

All in all, I would say ‘flip a coin’.

Yeah…I was going to add that if the numbers were turning against Breetai’s force, he’d call in Khyron and Azonia (which would include Miriya).

If the invid are sending up mecha, couldn’t Breetai just fire on the transport? I would have to think they wouldn’t be catching them by surprise like they did scott’s battalion.

I don’t see how this is even a contest. You have cruisers that could hit from a distant vs mecha that would have to get close enough to take out those ships. Plus you have the Battlepods to engage the invid as well.

Invid get wiped out in space, then reflex point gets crushed from orbit.

 

 

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Posted: 08 March 2019 04:18 PM   [ # 4 ]  
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Hunting_Invid - 08 March 2019 01:07 PM
Buried Alien - 07 March 2019 11:19 PM
Megalord1 - 07 March 2019 11:06 PM

Interesting question.

The Invid forces on Earth never deployed large/heavy warships to combat the REF. They just relied on sending massive numbers of mecha into combat.

Now Breetai’s initial fleet numbered hundreds (perhaps up to a thousand) ships of various classes. Each of those ships carried hundreds, if not thousands of mecha.

Still, it’s going to boil down to a numbers game. Who’s side can afford the heavier losses. Both side are bitter enemies, and know each other well.

Breetai’s forces are going to have the firepower advantage with their ships. But the Invid will have the numbers advantage, and the defender’s advantage. Being closer to their hives, means that the Invid can send reinforcements into battle, far quicker then Breetai could bring in additional forces.

All in all, I would say ‘flip a coin’.

Yeah…I was going to add that if the numbers were turning against Breetai’s force, he’d call in Khyron and Azonia (which would include Miriya).

If the invid are sending up mecha, couldn’t Breetai just fire on the transport? I would have to think they wouldn’t be catching them by surprise like they did scott’s battalion.

I don’t see how this is even a contest. You have cruisers that could hit from a distant vs mecha that would have to get close enough to take out those ships. Plus you have the Battlepods to engage the invid as well.

Invid get wiped out in space, then reflex point gets crushed from orbit.

 

Precisely the matter we’re analyzing:  whether Breetai and his forces would have succeeded in the goal that the REF failed to accomplish.  I give Breetai a 50/50 chance of succeeding at this, and if he has the Imperial Class Fleet (1,000,000 Zentraedi warships) under his command, he’s almost guaranteed to succeed.

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Posted: 09 March 2019 01:23 PM   [ # 5 ]  
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Buried Alien - 07 March 2019 08:01 PM

This time, we take a break from one-on-one mecha and pilot matches to pit larger forces against each other. 

At Reflex Point on Earth, the Invid Regis detects an incoming group of hostiles.

She deploys the exact same force as the one that destroyed the 21st Mars Division in Episode 61 of ROBOTECH (“The Invid Invasion”) into low orbit to meet the invading force.

This time, however, the invading force isn’t the 21st Mars Division, but Commander Breetai with the same Zentraedi fleet with which he arrived in Earth’s orbit in Episode 1 (“Boobytrap”).

What is the most likely outcome of this clash between Zentraedi and Invid forces?

The Invid force gets smashed.  The Zentreadi could hold some ships back by the Moon and those ships (never mind the advancing ships) could target the transports as they lift off (Ep3, Breetai’s gunners from the Moon shot up Earth’s fleet without a direct hit on the SDF-1).  The one advantage the Invid Clam ships have over the RDF is numbers and size (their transports are approx. 1/2 the size of a Orberth-class vessel).

If Breetai’s forces had to go mecha-mecha, the Invid Calm Ships hold 450 Scouts.  This means they would need to deploy ~3 ICS for every Zentreadi Destroyer just for an even numbers match.  Since Breetai’s group includes more than just Destroyers, the Carrier holds enough troops to require ~27 ICS per, the Flagship is ~14 ICS, ~8 ICS per Command Ship (Khyron/Azonia type IF any are present).  The only Zentreadi ship a single ICS outclasses for mecha would be the Scout (9 Zen Scouts for ICS).

You also have to assume that Breetai’s forces aren’t necessarily going to let the Invid take off either, they could target the ICS on the ground.

The only real card the Invid have that might give them the win is the Regis goes Energy Phoenix and withdraws from Earth.

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Posted: 09 March 2019 04:41 PM   [ # 6 ]  
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ShadowLogan - 09 March 2019 01:23 PM
Buried Alien - 07 March 2019 08:01 PM

This time, we take a break from one-on-one mecha and pilot matches to pit larger forces against each other. 

At Reflex Point on Earth, the Invid Regis detects an incoming group of hostiles.

She deploys the exact same force as the one that destroyed the 21st Mars Division in Episode 61 of ROBOTECH (“The Invid Invasion”) into low orbit to meet the invading force.

This time, however, the invading force isn’t the 21st Mars Division, but Commander Breetai with the same Zentraedi fleet with which he arrived in Earth’s orbit in Episode 1 (“Boobytrap”).

What is the most likely outcome of this clash between Zentraedi and Invid forces?

The Invid force gets smashed.  The Zentreadi could hold some ships back by the Moon and those ships (never mind the advancing ships) could target the transports as they lift off (Ep3, Breetai’s gunners from the Moon shot up Earth’s fleet without a direct hit on the SDF-1).  The one advantage the Invid Clam ships have over the RDF is numbers and size (their transports are approx. 1/2 the size of a Orberth-class vessel).

If Breetai’s forces had to go mecha-mecha, the Invid Calm Ships hold 450 Scouts.  This means they would need to deploy ~3 ICS for every Zentreadi Destroyer just for an even numbers match.  Since Breetai’s group includes more than just Destroyers, the Carrier holds enough troops to require ~27 ICS per, the Flagship is ~14 ICS, ~8 ICS per Command Ship (Khyron/Azonia type IF any are present).  The only Zentreadi ship a single ICS outclasses for mecha would be the Scout (9 Zen Scouts for ICS).

You also have to assume that Breetai’s forces aren’t necessarily going to let the Invid take off either, they could target the ICS on the ground.

The only real card the Invid have that might give them the win is the Regis goes Energy Phoenix and withdraws from Earth.

I should have made clear that Breetai’s objective is to either 1). eradicate the Invid on Earth or 2). drive them off the planet.  Fulfilling either objective would make it a successful mission for him.

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Posted: 10 March 2019 08:20 AM   [ # 7 ]  
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Well knowing the objectives is nice.  Still I’m not sure the Zentreadi could claim a victory if the Invid destroyed the task force they sent in since there is nothing (AFAIK) that would prevent the Invid from returning.

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Posted: 10 March 2019 10:23 AM   [ # 8 ]  
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ShadowLogan - 10 March 2019 08:20 AM

Well knowing the objectives is nice.  Still I’m not sure the Zentreadi could claim a victory if the Invid destroyed the task force they sent in since there is nothing (AFAIK) that would prevent the Invid from returning.

Just send in more Zentraedi.  Breetai’s initial force in “Boobytrap,” formidable as it was, represented like 0.0000001% of the Zentraedi’s total resources.  smile

It does raise the question of whether the Zentraedi or Invid would prevail in a war of attrition.

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Posted: 11 March 2019 12:29 AM   [ # 9 ]  
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Buried Alien - 10 March 2019 10:23 AM
ShadowLogan - 10 March 2019 08:20 AM

Well knowing the objectives is nice.  Still I’m not sure the Zentreadi could claim a victory if the Invid destroyed the task force they sent in since there is nothing (AFAIK) that would prevent the Invid from returning.

Just send in more Zentraedi.  Breetai’s initial force in “Boobytrap,” formidable as it was, represented like 0.0000001% of the Zentraedi’s total resources.  smile

It does raise the question of whether the Zentraedi or Invid would prevail in a war of attrition.

That’s the big question. The Invid didn’t seen to become a major threat to the Robotech Maters, until Dolza, and much of the Zentreadi armada, was wiped out.

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Posted: 11 March 2019 09:11 AM   [ # 10 ]  
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Megalord1 - 11 March 2019 12:29 AM
Buried Alien - 10 March 2019 10:23 AM
ShadowLogan - 10 March 2019 08:20 AM

Well knowing the objectives is nice.  Still I’m not sure the Zentreadi could claim a victory if the Invid destroyed the task force they sent in since there is nothing (AFAIK) that would prevent the Invid from returning.

Just send in more Zentraedi.  Breetai’s initial force in “Boobytrap,” formidable as it was, represented like 0.0000001% of the Zentraedi’s total resources.  smile

It does raise the question of whether the Zentraedi or Invid would prevail in a war of attrition.

That’s the big question. The Invid didn’t seen to become a major threat to the Robotech Maters, until Dolza, and much of the Zentreadi armada, was wiped out.

The Zentraedi always seemed like they were custom-made to deal with Invid.  The REF, which was a sort of low-rent Zentraedi, was able to be a constant nuisance to the Invid for years, and came close to exterminating them on Earth with the Neutron-S missiles.  The Zentraedi at the height of their power were like the REF on super steroids.

 

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