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Did the Ikazuchi Command Carriers of the REF have their own “SDF” designations?
Posted: 11 February 2019 01:29 AM  
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Yet another question that has been on my mind. (I feel like I have been spamming today!) The Del Rey Sentinel novels mention an SDF-7 prototype ship which I can only imagine was probably the prototype for what would become the Ikazuchi class ships. I think in my mind, it kind of made sense that they would reserve the SDF numbers 4 through 6 for any (as of yet) unbuilt flagships of the REF fleet and skipped to #7 for new command ships. As for the “SDF” designation itself, it could be like the NCC numbers of ships in Star Trek. Ships in Star Trek had both a ship name and a registration number so why couldn’t ships in the Robotech universe have both? To add another option, the latest of the Robotech RPG books from Palladium Books Inc (the Master’s Saga Sourcebook) calls the Tristar class of ships “Super Dimensional Cruisers” or “SDC” so maybe the “Fortress” designation might be reserved for flagships. What do you think? Are the Ikazuchi Command Carriers worthy of an SDF designation? (In my own mind, I thought that if I ever ran a Sentinels RPG campaign, I would call the players home base ship the SDF-9 and it would be an Ikazuchi-class ship.)  Showbox Tutuapp Vidmate

 

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Posted: 11 February 2019 02:41 AM   [ # 1 ]  
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SDCV.

S = Super
D = Dimensional
CV = Aircraft Carrier.

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Posted: 11 February 2019 06:16 AM   [ # 2 ]  
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Heera - 11 February 2019 01:29 AM

Yet another question that has been on my mind. (I feel like I have been spamming today!) The Del Rey Sentinel novels mention an SDF-7 prototype ship which I can only imagine was probably the prototype for what would become the Ikazuchi class ships. I think in my mind, it kind of made sense that they would reserve the SDF numbers 4 through 6 for any (as of yet) unbuilt flagships of the REF fleet and skipped to #7 for new command ships. As for the “SDF” designation itself, it could be like the NCC numbers of ships in Star Trek. Ships in Star Trek had both a ship name and a registration number so why couldn’t ships in the Robotech universe have both? To add another option, the latest of the Robotech RPG books from Palladium Books Inc (the Master’s Saga Sourcebook) calls the Tristar class of ships “Super Dimensional Cruisers” or “SDC” so maybe the “Fortress” designation might be reserved for flagships. What do you think? Are the Ikazuchi Command Carriers worthy of an SDF designation? (In my own mind, I thought that if I ever ran a Sentinels RPG campaign, I would call the players home base ship the SDF-9 and it would be an Ikazuchi-class ship.)

Pre-production material for the (canceled) Sentinels Series gave SDF designations to various NG-era ships*.  You can find these on “Elements of Robotechnology” DVDs (Legacy collection, don’t know how many carried over to later releases) specifically the one for Sentinels (IIRC) though off hand I don’t recall which SDF-#s go with which NG-era ships (Garfish, Horizon, Ikazuchi).

*Lancer identifies the Garfish the old timers use in “Ghost Town” as an SDF-class vessel in the show, so the idea isn’t completely without merit.  So it would appear that RT uses a SDF-# system for it’s ship classes instead of “Garfish” or “Ikazhuchi” or at least it did at one time.

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Posted: 11 February 2019 09:19 AM   [ # 3 ]  
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ShadowLogan - 11 February 2019 06:16 AM
Heera - 11 February 2019 01:29 AM

Yet another question that has been on my mind. (I feel like I have been spamming today!) The Del Rey Sentinel novels mention an SDF-7 prototype ship which I can only imagine was probably the prototype for what would become the Ikazuchi class ships. I think in my mind, it kind of made sense that they would reserve the SDF numbers 4 through 6 for any (as of yet) unbuilt flagships of the REF fleet and skipped to #7 for new command ships. As for the “SDF” designation itself, it could be like the NCC numbers of ships in Star Trek. Ships in Star Trek had both a ship name and a registration number so why couldn’t ships in the Robotech universe have both? To add another option, the latest of the Robotech RPG books from Palladium Books Inc (the Master’s Saga Sourcebook) calls the Tristar class of ships “Super Dimensional Cruisers” or “SDC” so maybe the “Fortress” designation might be reserved for flagships. What do you think? Are the Ikazuchi Command Carriers worthy of an SDF designation? (In my own mind, I thought that if I ever ran a Sentinels RPG campaign, I would call the players home base ship the SDF-9 and it would be an Ikazuchi-class ship.)

Pre-production material for the (canceled) Sentinels Series gave SDF designations to various NG-era ships*.  You can find these on “Elements of Robotechnology” DVDs (Legacy collection, don’t know how many carried over to later releases) specifically the one for Sentinels (IIRC) though off hand I don’t recall which SDF-#s go with which NG-era ships (Garfish, Horizon, Ikazuchi).

*Lancer identifies the Garfish the old timers use in “Ghost Town” as an SDF-class vessel in the show, so the idea isn’t completely without merit.  So it would appear that RT uses a SDF-# system for it’s ship classes instead of “Garfish” or “Ikazhuchi” or at least it did at one time.

That Garfish from “Ghost Town” was awfully small for something that would carry an SDF designation.

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Posted: 12 February 2019 07:40 AM   [ # 4 ]  
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I won’t argue the size of the Garfish is small, the fact is though it does carry such a designation in the show and no one contradicted Lancer in the episode.  It doesn’t come up again either.

This to me means that SDF designation either:
-comes from a feature(s) possessed by the ship and not the size
-that or the REF/UEEF went with SDF-# for ship class names (as suggested in pre-Production materials for Sentinels).

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Posted: 12 February 2019 05:11 PM   [ # 5 ]  
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“Super dimensional” only means that the ship is literally capable of traveling through a higher dimension by means of space folding.  It has nothing to do with the size of the ship, so long as it can fold.

So I assume the Garfish (like the Tristar before it) could fold and was thus “super dimensional.”  Not sure about the “fortress” part though, whatever that’s supposed to mean.

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Posted: 12 February 2019 06:31 PM   [ # 6 ]  
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RaisingCane - 12 February 2019 05:11 PM

“Super dimensional” only means that the ship is literally capable of traveling through a higher dimension by means of space folding.  It has nothing to do with the size of the ship, so long as it can fold.

That said, at least as of the end of the Third Robotech War, it seemed that ships had to be a certain minimum size before they could accommodate a fold system aboard.  From what we saw during THE MACROSS SAGA, fold systems were *huge* mothers that occupied quite a bit of space.  Perhaps developments in Robotechnology enabled them to become somewhat miniaturized by the time of the Invid occupation, but I’m not sure if a Garfish would be big enough to fit a fold system aboard.

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Posted: 12 February 2019 06:40 PM   [ # 7 ]  
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If you’re basing that assessment on the size of the SDF-1’s fold drives in the OSM, then consider this…

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossplus/yf-19-foldbooster.htm

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Posted: 12 February 2019 10:09 PM   [ # 8 ]  
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RaisingCane - 12 February 2019 06:40 PM

If you’re basing that assessment on the size of the SDF-1’s fold drives in the OSM, then consider this…

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossplus/yf-19-foldbooster.htm

That might be the case over in the SDF: MACROSS universe, but in ROBOTECH, no Veritech Fighter (including the Alpha and Beta series) had a fold drive.  I’ve long thought that the minimal size spacecraft in ROBOTECH that could accommodate a fold system was the Army of the Southern Cross’s Tristar-class.

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Posted: 12 February 2019 10:39 PM   [ # 9 ]  
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I was specifically addressing your assertion that fold drive miniaturization was unlikely to have reached a point where it could fit a ship as small as a Garfish, using the VF-19’s fold booster as the most extreme example.  As far as I know, Macross OSM fold drives didn’t even exist in Southern Cross OSM or Mospeada OSM.

And for whatever it’s worth, this very site claims that the Garfish has “unlimited fold range.”

https://robotech.com/roboverse/mecha/garfish-class-cruiser

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Posted: 13 February 2019 07:52 AM   [ # 10 ]  
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Buried Alien - 12 February 2019 06:31 PM
RaisingCane - 12 February 2019 05:11 PM

“Super dimensional” only means that the ship is literally capable of traveling through a higher dimension by means of space folding.  It has nothing to do with the size of the ship, so long as it can fold.

That said, at least as of the end of the Third Robotech War, it seemed that ships had to be a certain minimum size before they could accommodate a fold system aboard.  From what we saw during THE MACROSS SAGA, fold systems were *huge* mothers that occupied quite a bit of space.  Perhaps developments in Robotechnology enabled them to become somewhat miniaturized by the time of the Invid occupation, but I’m not sure if a Garfish would be big enough to fit a fold system aboard.

It does.  Checkout Art of the Shadow Chronicles (pg112) and Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Graphic Novel (ship comparison chart toward the back) have the same image complete with labels pointing out the Fold Drive location.  Even the Infopedia Entry states it has a Fold Drive (also copied into the AotSC).


Could it be the Macross-era ships have Fold Drives the size they do because the ships are designed to accommodate giant Zentreadi (even the SDF-1), which necessitate the ships being larger and thus the engines need to be bigger or more plentiful?  The only real giant Zentreadi scale ship in TRM is the Masters Cityship/Flagship and Tokagawa, in NG it would seem to be the SDF-3 & SDF-4, with the rest of the ships in use being smaller (~70% or less of the SDF-1 length)

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Posted: 13 February 2019 11:02 AM   [ # 11 ]  
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ShadowLogan - 13 February 2019 07:52 AM
Buried Alien - 12 February 2019 06:31 PM
RaisingCane - 12 February 2019 05:11 PM

“Super dimensional” only means that the ship is literally capable of traveling through a higher dimension by means of space folding.  It has nothing to do with the size of the ship, so long as it can fold.

That said, at least as of the end of the Third Robotech War, it seemed that ships had to be a certain minimum size before they could accommodate a fold system aboard.  From what we saw during THE MACROSS SAGA, fold systems were *huge* mothers that occupied quite a bit of space.  Perhaps developments in Robotechnology enabled them to become somewhat miniaturized by the time of the Invid occupation, but I’m not sure if a Garfish would be big enough to fit a fold system aboard.

It does.  Checkout Art of the Shadow Chronicles (pg112) and Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Graphic Novel (ship comparison chart toward the back) have the same image complete with labels pointing out the Fold Drive location.  Even the Infopedia Entry states it has a Fold Drive (also copied into the AotSC).


Could it be the Macross-era ships have Fold Drives the size they do because the ships are designed to accommodate giant Zentreadi (even the SDF-1), which necessitate the ships being larger and thus the engines need to be bigger or more plentiful?  The only real giant Zentreadi scale ship in TRM is the Masters Cityship/Flagship and Tokagawa, in NG it would seem to be the SDF-3 & SDF-4, with the rest of the ships in use being smaller (~70% or less of the SDF-1 length)

Possibly, I’m too strongly influenced by the Palladium ROBOTECH RPG books from the 80s and 90s, which refused to put a fold engine into anything smaller than an Ikazuchi. Supposedly, even the Zentraedi Tou Redir-class scout ships did not have fold engines.

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Posted: 14 February 2019 06:13 AM   [ # 12 ]  
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The 5 major Zentreadi capital ships (Flag, Cmd, Landing, Destroyer, Scout) from the 1E RPG ALL had Fold Drives in them,  the Scout ship in the Zentreadi SB mentions it, and its even on the map in the Ghost Ship Campaign Module.  The only ship in the 1E RPG that seemed out of place regarding the Fold Drives was the Garfish.


Per the Infopedia the Zen. Scout vessel is roughly on par dimension wise with the Tri-Star of the TRM era (which appears to be the general size standard of TRM-era Terran warships IINM).  Also per the Infopedia is the Tirolian Heavy Cruiser that is overall smaller than the Zen. Scout ship and it has Fold Drives, and the THC is roughly x2 the size of a Garfish..

If we rescale the Zentreadi ships (and their technology) to fit human proportions, how does it compare to human ships of TRM and NG eras?  Per the Infopedia Miryia’s giant/human ratio is ~4.8:1, rounding that off to 5:1 for ease of use and assuming that is the normal ratio.  That means a Zentreadi ship rescaled for human use would be 20% the size or in the case of the Scout-class vessel:

Length: 498m (is now 99.6m)
Width: 178m (is now 35.6m)
Height: 355m (is now 71m)


That is smaller than the REF/UEEF Garfish vessel (per the Infopedia).

 

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Posted: 24 July 2019 04:23 PM   [ # 13 ]  
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Presumably the Southern Cross/REF Battlecruiser and Light Cruiser have spacefold capability, which would put them on the “SDF” chart somewhere. The same is true of the “IZUM-10”-type ships seen at the start of The Invid Invasion. Possibly the Transport that is part of Transport Squadron 85 is spacefold capable as well, if the Horizon can do so.

At the very least, these ships, including the Roc-class Multipurpose Shuttle and Pegasus-class Assault Shuttle have full solar system transit capability as they can generate their own gravity.

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