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35 years later I’m starting all over….got questions
Posted: 31 January 2019 01:51 PM  
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I was a big fan as a kid watching this series, loved everything except the singing haha. Now Man it takes me back! I have just finished the first series, and now I’m a little confused so hopefully this place is still active enough to help. While I watched the show as a kid, had the toys and loved it, I’m still a novice when it comes to the lore etc so apologies in advance if this is a straight up dumb question.

Why did they move from the veritech to the hover tanks? Watch the first few episodes of the 2nd series I kept thinking they would do so much better with veritechs against those battleoids(sp?)

I assume they don’t have the VT’s due to a lack of production ability or something along the lines of having limited resources. They just seem so much better suited for the robo-combat than the tanks are.

Bonus topic: Dana is annoying as hell. Was I the only one wanting to get through to series 3 as fast as possible?

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Posted: 31 January 2019 02:40 PM   [ # 1 ]  
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I can’t answer the question about the mecha.  I just rolled with it, since machinery changes over decades.  Someone here will get to you on that, someone who knows the lore.  There may even be contradicting explainers! 


About Dana - yes, she is very annoying!  I found TRM much easier to watch if I thought of it as an ensemble show instead of as Dana being the main character.  Hope that helps!

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Thanks, Carl Macek, for introducing me to all these folks.  Even the ones who bug me.

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Posted: 01 February 2019 01:00 PM   [ # 2 ]  
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Hi there!  Welcome… back?  smile

I am not an expert but the following is my amateur response.

If we are residing within the Robotech universe, The Robotech Expeditionary Force took most of the veritechs to Tirol.  Production and human population were wiped out after the First Robotech War with the Zentreadi.

If we are straying outside of the Robotech universe, Santa Claus is not real and Robotech is a combination of 3 separate Japanese anime cartoons.  Thus, there are no veritechs in the second series of Robotech because it is a different cartoon.

I believe the novels and role playing game books by palladium provide non-canon explanations which is where I got my information.  The role playing books are more condensed and easily digestible than the novels.  These are available for purchase online.

Some episodes are grueling to get through.  Our tastes and tolerances have changed since 1986.  smile

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Posted: 02 February 2019 10:52 PM   [ # 3 ]  
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Dana: “Let’s do it to it!” cool smile

I liked her more toward the last episodes of Masters where the plot’s moving fast and she’s got lots of stuff to do.

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get a job
The Bioroids have just begun to fight.

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Posted: 03 February 2019 07:03 PM   [ # 4 ]  
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Hunting_Invid - 31 January 2019 01:51 PM

Why did they move from the veritech to the hover tanks? Watch the first few episodes of the 2nd series I kept thinking they would do so much better with veritechs against those battleoids(sp?)

I assume they don’t have the VT’s due to a lack of production ability or something along the lines of having limited resources. They just seem so much better suited for the robo-combat than the tanks are.

Why the switch?  Its been 15 years, and things change (internally, externally its due to the nature of how 85ep RT was created).  You have the available technology, but also doctrine. 

The opening act(s) of Southern Cross tend to focus more on the VHT rather than the Logan (effectively the Veritech Fighter of its time/place) as that seems to be the emphasis.  That emphasis shifted later to a more “balanced” (though not equal) focus with the AGAC being the main background Veritech fighter (stand-in) and the VHT being the “star” unit.

It is actually hard to say how effective the mecha from one era would be in another, one thing that tends to “discolor” ASC mecha is that they seem to be shown firing but the result of firing a lot of times is left open so we don’t know if they actually hit or not.  However the VHT (and Logan) are shown to be quite effective when they are shown to hit their targets.  One other thing to keep in mind is that the ASC was not fighting the Zentreadi (statement exists that they are set for Zentraedi Round 2), but the people who made the Zentreadi (and therefore likely having superior technology).

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Posted: 03 February 2019 10:31 PM   [ # 5 ]  
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Acronyms defined

VT = veritech
15 years = between the start of the First Robotech War (2009 to 2012) and Second Robotech War (2024)
ep = episode
RT = Robotech
VHT = veritech hover tank
AGAC = Armored Gyro Assault Chopper = Ajax = veritech chopper = veritech copter
ASC = Army of the Southern Cross
Zentreadi Round 2 = After the First Robotech War, Earth is prepared for a second invasion of Zentreadi
People who made the Zentreadi = The Robotech Masters

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Posted: 04 February 2019 08:20 AM   [ # 6 ]  
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I imagined the hovertanks taking the place of the Veritechs for a couple of reasons: First, mentioned above by Brofessor, is that the majority of the Veritechs were taken into space where they would be more useful. Second, I assumed the traditional ideas of static defense and cold war-esque military doctrine permeated the defense forces. The defense force on Earth had a traditional air/space force and then they had their ground corps with tanks meant more for static defense of objectives etc.

What is neat about Southern Cross is we see that doctrine shift *dramatically* in part because of Dana. For example, before we know it they’re putting hover tanks into boarding missions in space to go toe to toe with the Robotech Masters on board their own vessels.

The defense force on Earth starts doing more with less and adapting to overcome the various situations thrown at them by the Robotech Masters.

Again that’s all just what I always imagined as being potential reasons.

As for Dana being annoying I’ve come around to her the older I’ve gotten. She’s wicked young, inexperienced but motivated and ready to take the world by the horns. Full of piss and vinegar we’d say. Or in other words: a motivated motivator. She does have an arc and as mentioned by Rand towards the end her character is more palatable as she’s come down to Earth a bit and has also found her “groove”. Given her backstory, Dana is more complex character than meets the eye.

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Posted: 04 February 2019 08:27 AM   [ # 7 ]  
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Brofessor - 01 February 2019 01:00 PM

Hi there!  Welcome… back?  smile

I am not an expert but the following is my amateur response.

If we are residing within the Robotech universe, The Robotech Expeditionary Force took most of the veritechs to Tirol.  Production and human population were wiped out after the First Robotech War with the Zentreadi.

If we are straying outside of the Robotech universe, Santa Claus is not real and Robotech is a combination of 3 separate Japanese anime cartoons.  Thus, there are no veritechs in the second series of Robotech because it is a different cartoon.

I believe the novels and role playing game books by palladium provide non-canon explanations which is where I got my information.  The role playing books are more condensed and easily digestible than the novels.  These are available for purchase online.

Some episodes are grueling to get through.  Our tastes and tolerances have changed since 1986.  smile

That does make some sense to me, but if they had the capacity to make the tanks, would they also have it to make the VF’s?

Lol on you’re second point, which honestly is why it is what it is. I’m sure they made the changes to sell toys much like they did with the transformers. However, real world aside, I think your 1st reasoning fits best within the context of the story.

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Posted: 04 February 2019 10:53 AM   [ # 8 ]  
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Brofessor - 03 February 2019 10:31 PM

Acronyms defined

VT = veritech
15 years = between the start of the First Robotech War (2009 to 2012) and Second Robotech War (2024)
ep = episode
RT = Robotech
VHT = veritech hover tank
AGAC = Armored Gyro Assault Chopper = Ajax = veritech chopper = veritech copter
ASC = Army of the Southern Cross
Zentreadi Round 2 = After the First Robotech War, Earth is prepared for a second invasion of Zentreadi
People who made the Zentreadi = The Robotech Masters

Actually its 15 years between the END of the 1st Saga (2014) and the start of the 2nd Saga (2029).

Hunting_Invid - 04 February 2019 08:27 AM

That does make some sense to me, but if they had the capacity to make the tanks, would they also have it to make the VF’s?

Lol on you’re second point, which honestly is why it is what it is. I’m sure they made the changes to sell toys much like they did with the transformers. However, real world aside, I think your 1st reasoning fits best within the context of the story.

They do have the capacity to make VFs, its just that the VFs they are making are different (Logan, AGAC, and depending on who you ask the Sylphid).  Internal to the story the reason would have to be the VF-1 is outdated and/or no longer in production or use.  The Logan doesn’t get much screen time (the episode “Volunteers” is IINM the most screen time it gets in a single episode), certainly not as much as the AGAC once it is introduced (and it is present in “Dana’s Story” owing to the episode is nothing more than recycled animation).

External to the story the actual reason there is no VF-1 (or anyother real cross pollination on screen) in the late two arcs is that Robotech is built upon the footage of 3 separate and unrelated shows.

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Posted: 04 February 2019 10:53 PM   [ # 9 ]  
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Focus Fate - 04 February 2019 08:20 AM

She does have an arc and as mentioned by Rand towards the end her character is more palatable as she’s come down to Earth a bit and has also found her “groove”.

Small error right?  Not Rand.  Probably Bowie or Angie?

Acronyms defined

VF = Veritech Fighter
Sylphid = mythological air spirit, invisible
IINM = If I’m not mistaken
Cross pollination = characters and mecha from the three Robotech Wars stay within their respective saga.  If they made cameos in all three Robotech wars they
                                    would be cross pollinating.

I enjoy all your posts ShadowLogan.  Keep it coming.  smile

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Posted: 05 February 2019 10:03 AM   [ # 10 ]  
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Brofessor - 04 February 2019 10:53 PM
Focus Fate - 04 February 2019 08:20 AM

She does have an arc and as mentioned by Rand towards the end her character is more palatable as she’s come down to Earth a bit and has also found her “groove”.

Small error right?  Not Rand.  Probably Bowie or Angie?

A:)

 

Robotech dot com member Rand, in a previous comment on this topic.  Not the character from the show, you silly nut.

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Posted: 06 February 2019 11:44 AM   [ # 11 ]  
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ahhhhh so watching ep 45 last night, and my annoyance with Dana has turned into a soft hate.


I’m not sure of the spoiler policy so anyone new not wanting to be seen, read at your own risk.


Really, you’re fighting for survival against an enemy that is trying to kill you and you want to basically go lynn kyle( I hated, I mean hated that dude and was very disappointed he was allowed to live) with a gun on us? She should’ve been removed from her command. She allowed a battleoid to take a human hostage because she didn’t want to kill the pilot. She aided the enemy and risked the lives of her men. I don’t think she didn’t fire for fear of hitting the civilian either, this was straight up ridiculous.

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Posted: 07 February 2019 11:48 AM   [ # 12 ]  
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I don’t think they “switched” to hovertanks so much as the story shifted focus over to a hovertank squadron.  If they replaced anything, it was the destroids.

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Posted: 08 February 2019 06:29 PM   [ # 13 ]  
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[/quote]About Dana - yes, she is very annoying!  I found TRM much easier to watch if I thought of it as an ensemble show instead of as Dana being the main character.  Hope that helps! [/quote]

You’ve been picking on my girl Dana since 2007…please stop because she is awesome.

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Posted: 08 February 2019 09:12 PM   [ # 14 ]  
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WhiteLion2 - 08 February 2019 06:29 PM

About Dana - yes, she is very annoying!  I found TRM much easier to watch if I thought of it as an ensemble show instead of as Dana being the main character.  Hope that helps!

You’ve been picking on my girl Dana since 2007…please stop because she is awesome.


Make me.  I’m putting up my dukes!

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Thanks, Carl Macek, for introducing me to all these folks.  Even the ones who bug me.

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Posted: 11 February 2019 07:06 AM   [ # 15 ]  
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Hunting_Invid - 06 February 2019 11:44 AM

ahhhhh so watching ep 45 last night, and my annoyance with Dana has turned into a soft hate.


I’m not sure of the spoiler policy so anyone new not wanting to be seen, read at your own risk.


Really, you’re fighting for survival against an enemy that is trying to kill you and you want to basically go lynn kyle( I hated, I mean hated that dude and was very disappointed he was allowed to live) with a gun on us? She should’ve been removed from her command. She allowed a battleoid to take a human hostage because she didn’t want to kill the pilot. She aided the enemy and risked the lives of her men. I don’t think she didn’t fire for fear of hitting the civilian either, this was straight up ridiculous.

The Masters use Bioroids NOT Battloids (correct RT spelling).

Dana’s actions might actually have been correct (morally) though.  If they had fired upon the Bioroid holding the civilian hostage, the hostage would either be killed or severely injured if you think about the result of a successful shot..

A best case scenario is that the hostage is injured, keep in mind the Bioroid model in question is 6.4m tall (~21ft), and it was holding him at roughly chest level (approx. 2/3 height).  While a fall from that height is survivable, I don’t think it’s an easy “walk away” from fall under those conditions (no safety gear, reaction time to be “ready” to hit the ground properly, impacting concrete rubble, etc).

More likely the civilian hostage is going to die from the destruction of the Bioroid.  You have shrapnel from the exploding bioroid section, possibly a radius effect from the VHT’s gunpod, could tighten the grip crushing him, the unit (or parts of) could also fall on them, the dying Bioroid could also essentially toss him (instead of tightening grip).


Dana’s goal, while against orders, does make some sense.  The ASC was essentially fighting in the dark with very little information on their enemy, capturing (even a low level) pilot(s) could provide a boon to intelligence and maybe even clarify some of the issues at the briefings she attended earlier in the episode.

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