First, let me say that is this topic is for discussion of the canon ONLY (IE: The TV series). Hence, references to the novels will not be considerred valid for the purposes of this topic….
Now, on to the meat of the discussion….
I have heard many arguments for an against Leonard. However, I am looking at the over all picture, not specific decsions. Over all, I think Leonard was in a tough spot. He had a superior military force to contend with and the political force of the UEG breathing down his neck. This meant that he had to fight two wars at the same time. One, a military war to protect the Earth from the Master and a second one is a political war against the UEG to allow the ASC to do it’s job in the manner they think best. With that in mind, whether you like his decisions or not, he succeeded in doing his job and doing it well. I personally think he was the right man for the job. In my opinion, he was a hero, just as Gloval was in his war and Bernard was in his, and entitled to the same respect that is paid to Gloval or Bernard.
Keeping up the effort eh rhade? Here’s a few points:
1) Having bosses that demand results is not the same as fighting a second war… that’s just overblown rhetoric and not a situation he always handled particularly well.
2) Whether or not he’s a hero comes down to something that can’t be at all proven and that’s whether or not he did the “best” job (or close to it) possible given his situation. Some people feel the Masters could have been defeated handily without the FOL being spread and others will think The Masters could have eliminated humanity entirely.
All you could possibly fish out of this lake is more non-definitive squabbling. If it’s something more democratic you’re going for, like a vote, I’ll start you off:
I vote NAY - he did a subpar job as abrasively as possible.
I’m not going to say he is or isn’t a hero. He made many questionable calls but he was in a rather hard place.
Having his final battle fall apart as it did by having a Masters attack occur just as he was preparing for his attack makes it hard to judge what the outcome would have been. If he had pulled off his surprise mass attack as he had hoped we might have seen a different ending.
As for the FOL being spread, that was more an accident of Zor. If the Masters had not attacked then the ship would not have been heading for Monument city. If the 15th had not disabled the ship it wouldn’t have been out of control. If Zor hadn’t blown it up it wouldn’t have crashed on the SDF-1 site. Thats just a bad chain reaction that no one person could really be held accountable for since it was none of their intentions.
But I’m going with Rhade on this one. It isn’t easy to be a supreme commander of an entire army (I wouldn’t know, just guessing), while having to deal with the UEG. scrutinizing & pressuring your every move? Maybe he did make some questionable decisions & I’m sure someone will happily point them out , nobodys perfect, not even a supreme commander but overall, he did a very good job considering the circumstances & I’m factoring in canon Leonard only, not the novel Leonard. Can any of us honestly say with a straight face we could have done a better job as Surpreme Commander? ....I can’t.
You took the words right out of my mouth. He was just a soldier, no more/no less & he simply carried out his duty as leader of ASC to the best of his ability. Let history be his judge. I just think history has unfairly judged him, is all, & its probably because of the Non-Canon novels. Leonard was only Human.
I agree that Leonard was very politically savvy. However i also think that he allowed to much of his political view to effect the military decisions he made (whether good or bad). He certainly was in a tough spot and he did the best job he was capable of doing. History will judge whether his best was good enough or not.
Hmmmm just out of curiosity Treiz if history is to judge him then would he not already be judged in the robotech timeline? It would be interesting to find out how the REF view him but unfortunately there are no references to him in PTTSC or TSC that i can remember?
It would be interesting to find out how the REF view him
Doesn’t matter, ultimately, since he was the Supreme Commander of the United Earth Forces until his death in 2030. That means he was their military boss. Whether they liked him or hated him is irrelevant. Besides, absolutely nothing in the Tv series even remotely resembles there being any kind of ‘rift’ over his policies. Disagreements, yes, but everyone followed their orders.
If the REF disliked his polcies, then why did Major Carpenter not relay this? Why did he not state that General Reinhardt had called for his censure (which, btw, would be impossible)?
The only mention of Leonard after the end of the Second war was by the old geezers in New Gen. From the way he said it, it would seem that within the REF and other UEG forces Leonard was not seen as a villian as some fans seem to think he is.
It’s not much, but we’ll have to wait for future works to get a more complete idea of how the show’s internal history has judged his performance and eventual sacrifice.
I would imagine that his men, seeing him refuse to leave his post or ask anymore of them than he was willing to give of himself would view him in a different light.
One other thing that a lot people forget, in talking about his ‘abrasive personality’ is that he was only a ‘blow hard’ to subordinate officers, who were repeatedly acting in an insubordinate manner; particularly in his famous (later) clashes with Emmerson.
It would be interesting to find out how the REF view him
Considering that the REF left with Leonard in charge Earth’s defense I guess that they must have had some faith in him. If they thought he was that incompetant it would be grossly irresponsible to leave IMO. :101:
forgot about the old geezers in NG. I will have to re-watch that episode.
Brooklyn Red Leg any future references we get about Leonard is likely to be from a REF perspective since robotech now seem to be focusing on this military force and their war against the haydonites, so how the REF view him is important.