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Admiral Hunter report card poll:
Posted: 09 June 2006 11:21 AM  
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You know, watching New Generation back in 85, I thought it was cool to hear about this almost mythical “Admiral Hunter”. I know some have expressed displeasure at how Scott would reference the Admiral seeminly every other sentence, but I liked the idea of a quasi savior of sorts. It gave me a similar feeling like when the main protagonist of the first “The Terminator” film would speak so highly of John Conner. I think they were similar concepts. A brilliant military commander who is humanities flicker of hope.

We saw him grow from a young man, be groomed by a wonderful menter, into a dedicated, albeit somewhat relunctant, idealistic leader. Then by the time of New Generation, we all could just imagine the inspirational exploits of this great leader.

So, with what’s been given to us so far…..has the various material of the various mediums done justice to the mystique of this almost human diety “Amdiral Hunter”????

The Sentinels feature, Jack McKinny Sentinels novels, Sentinels comics, PTTSC comics….these are the only things that gives us a glimps into this future/past.

How has it done???

Is this how you envisioned the legendary “Admiral Hunter”??????

Me, nope.  :judge:  I think all of it has failed miserably to live up to the reputation established in New Generation.

The Sentinels feature - Rick is so whiney and utterly unsure of himself, it really gets annoying.

Sentinels comics - don’t know, never read them.

Jack McKinny Sentinels books - same as the feature. Far too whiney with NO confidence.

PTTSC - still not quite assertive enough for my taste.

And last, the one failure that ALL of these stories share is this….NOT ONE OF THEM DEPICTS ADMIRAL HUNTER DOING ANYTHING PARTICULARLY EXTROIDINARY!!! :|

In Sentinels J.M. novels, yes he runs around alot and so forth. However, there has never been anything depicted where you think….“wow, if it wasn’t for the genius of ‘Admiral Hunter’ they would have all died”

Do you see what I’m saying?

Where is this magnificent son of a bitch named “Admiral Hunter”?????


They didn’t give him proper heroics!!!!  :judge:

He deserved better, if you ask me!

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Posted: 09 June 2006 12:33 PM   [ # 1 ]  
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New Generation never gave me the impression that Admiral Hunter was some sort of savior.  The impression that I got was, “Whoa.  Rick is an admiral now?  Awesome!”.  I just got the impression that he commanded a huge fleet that could save the Earth.

Rick Hunter was a character in a love story, and I think subsequent materials did a good job in continuing his character.

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Posted: 09 June 2006 03:34 PM   [ # 2 ]  
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Admiral Hunter didn’t do anything particularly heroic… except having led and survived countless campaigns liberating and saving nearly a dozen planets.

I think that qualifies him some hero worship.

What particularly heroic thing did the famous 5-stars and other famous generals of WWII do? The answer is nothing.

MacArthur is a near god in the Philippines because he came back like he promised, but did he do anything specially heroic… no.

Patton led from the front of the battlefield with his men, but did he do anything specially heroic… no.

Eisenhower commanded the liberation of Europe, but did he do anything specially heroic… no.

Nimitz sat on a desk. Halsey almost made a huge mistake in the Philippine Sea.

You don’t need to do anything individually heroic to be a savior.  Rick is simply a leader and a winner.  He leads men to victory, on any battlefront.  A man like that… people will follow him through heaven and hell.

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Posted: 09 June 2006 05:04 PM   [ # 3 ]  
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Like Wrecks, I just thought “Cool, he is still alive and leading earth’s forces”.

Like Rapier said, he did not have to do anything extraordanary to be a hero.  Just win battles and survive and lead people to victory.

Everything I read in other source material continued his character development rather well.  Just because he is a leader doesn’t mean he has no doubts or fears.  Thats my 2 cents.

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Posted: 09 June 2006 10:01 PM   [ # 4 ]  
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I can hear the groans as we speak, “Here comes Mr. Pigeon himself to attempt to put down Rick! Get a job you hippie!” Maybe not…

At any rate, yes, Scott did give the impression of a great and moral leader. To the point where I envisioned Rand eventually going, “Yeah yeah Scott, enough about your precious admiral.”

Notice, Scott never references the REF, the UEEF, or what have you, he always references “Admiral Hunter” or “I served under Admiral Hunter.”

What do we see in PttSC? We see the admiral of the combined forces of the UEEF fighting at the front of his men (out of formation I might add) instead of in his ship where he belongs. What kind of a dork puts himself (and therefore the command structure of the military) in harms way?

I’m guessing Hunter’s legendary status among the grunts was a combination of his “in-the-line-of-fire” stupidity, his combat record as a pilot, and an incredibly succesful PR campaign.

His bungling of the planning of the re-taking of Earth is second to no other military blunder in post Global Civil War Earth, and his commitment to knowingly incinerating civilians is deserving only of conviction at the Hague.

As for his character development post Macross, blah. He grew up in Macross (sort of), that was the point of the series. His “disillusionment” only serves as compelling drama when there are consequenses for his actions. Oedipus is compelling because of the consequences. Hamlet is compelling because of the consequences. Macross is compelling becasue of the consequences. Drama = compelling story.

A “disillusioned” character is only interesting when there are consequences for their key mistaken actions (the disenfranchisement of Edwards, the NS bombing of Earth). So far the only consequences we’ve seen are the loss of his unborn child (which was summarily swept under the comic rug). It looks as though he won’t even resign his command, let alone face criminal charges for the latter. As for the former, well Edwards is dead, and he’s not.

As a commander, Hunter is somewhere between that guy who goes “It’s suicide!” in The Masters and the soldier who asks “How old are you? AAAARGH!” in Macross.

As a literary figure, he’s no longer compelling. Drop him or update him, but don’t stretch a character whose story you’re not willing to develop properly.

Coulomb’s grade for Admiral Rick Hunter: D (the D is in consideration of his earlier devlopment and his his PR group).

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Posted: 10 June 2006 05:50 AM   [ # 5 ]  
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Me, too.

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Posted: 10 June 2006 07:21 AM   [ # 6 ]  
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What kind of a dork puts himself (and therefore the command structure of the military) in harms way?

Theodore Roosevelt did it several times.

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Posted: 10 June 2006 07:22 AM   [ # 7 ]  
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it would be more interesting in this forum to hear from posters who have ACTUALLY led men in combat!!!! 
It kills me to read all of the downright slander against characters like Edwards, Hunter, Gloval, and yes even Leonard!!!  Who really knows what it is like to have your planet being overrun by a seemingly unstoppable force.  Hell, who know what it is like to have your post attacked by a ridiculously small and untrained force.  I can tell you that I was scared out of my mind as I looked damn near into a fourteen year old boy’s face as he was running towards us with a RPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sorry, but I gotta say this.  Enjoy the saga, debate about actual robotechnology and have fun with the forums, but it really irritates me sometimes when people pretend to have any notion of what combat leadership is!!!!!
So you have NEVER EVER second guessed yourself or one of your decisions.
Let me put it this way…  Have you ever discussed with your wife about a facet of how to bring up your son.  Well these Marines are all my ‘sons’ and I second guess damn near all decisions because their lives are in my hands.

Again, I apologize if this is offensive to you.  But at the least, it is MY truth, if not THE truth.

Thank you.
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Posted: 10 June 2006 08:53 AM   [ # 8 ]  
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If you look at PTTSC you might remember that the NS warheads were only to be used as a last resort if the fleet faced complete destruction. Also it was General Rienhart who authorised the final use of those weapons. In PTTSC if rick had not been “delayed” I’d be willing to bet even money he’d have never launched those missiles. :101:

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Posted: 10 June 2006 09:00 AM   [ # 9 ]  
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His bungling of the planning of the re-taking of Earth is second to no other military blunder in post Global Civil War Earth, and his commitment to knowingly incinerating civilians is deserving only of conviction at the Hague.

Yeah… and Gloval didn’t incinerate a 25 mile radius area in Ontario for no other reason than stupidity sticking with an untested barrier shield against a mere half dozen zentraedi vessels. or carry an entire island off the pacific ocean into an orbit as far as pluto. i could even make a case that he could have prevented the zentraedi rain of death if he attacked dolza as soon as the zentraedi fleet appeared.

every commander makes mistakes. no one is perfect you know. it’s about how you come back from your mistakes and failures, and if you achieve your goals in the end. rick has been shown to get tougher as the going gets tough. and whatever the situation, he finds a way to succeed.

as far as commanders leading from the front, i already mentioned patton… macarthur led from the front… how about the legendary figures in the american civil war, many led from the front… the list of commanders leading from the front is very long.

GRADE: B+ because Admiral Hunter has never failed to achieve a goal no matter what the circumstance.

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Posted: 10 June 2006 12:18 PM   [ # 10 ]  
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Adm hunter don’t exist (in animation anyways)!

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Posted: 10 June 2006 02:52 PM   [ # 11 ]  
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I am sorry, but I gotta say this. Enjoy the saga, debate about actual robotechnology and have fun with the forums, but it really irritates me sometimes when people pretend to have any notion of what combat leadership is!!!!!

Evenso, I can say it when I see something weird!

Does the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff habitually go in with the first wave, no body armor (IIRC) or rifle with him, and does he stand erect in the FLOT in full view of the enemy while directing individual squadrons and squads? That’s basically what RH did in PttSC!

There is leading from the front and then there is leading from the front.
Rommel may have gotten away with it in WW2, but he wasn’t the OKH and even the Desert Fox used an armoured recon vehicle during his outings, not an uniform and dune buggy.

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Posted: 10 June 2006 04:31 PM   [ # 12 ]  
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it would be more interesting in this forum to hear from posters who have ACTUALLY led men in combat!!!!

While I understand your sentiment, does this mean people that don’t understand chemical reactions and physical limitations of energy transfer shouldn’t post their thoughts on protoculture? Considering that the point was about your thoughts of his literary/film devlopment compared with Scott’s character’s expectations of him. I feel I’m just as qualified as anyone else to address the question. Which was…

So, with what’s been given to us so far…..has the various material of the various mediums done justice to the mystique of this almost human diety “Amdiral Hunter”????

Hence, my arguments were that no, I do not believe the Hunter we see in the comics had any sort fo mystique about him. I thought he was poorly portrayed and Hunter’s character suffered because of it. He is portrayed as a largely one dimensional person who doesn’t spend any time brooding over his decision to nuke the civilians of Earth. This is in direct contrast with his character devlopment in Macross. Macross’ Hunter spends time thinking about and questioning the military’s purpose and goals. He finally concludes that he may not always agree with the military, but he will support it. In PttSC we see Hunter completely different. He doesn’t seem to question himself, and he seems to give little if any thought to incinerating a civilian populace. Seemingly making up his mind after discussing the issue for one night. Compare this to Truman who by his diary indicates he spent nights thinking about his decision and questioned it for weeks afterwards (as well as seemingly having been misinformed as to the target and capabilities of the bombs).

...because Admiral Hunter has never failed to achieve a goal no matter what the circumstance.

Admiral Hunter failed to forcefully retake Earth three times. The only reason the Invid left were because of the resistance and the Regis’ own predictions of future engagements. Considering he wasn’t an Admiral in charge during Southern Cross, he actually seems to have failed consistently in his most important mission.

Also it was General Rienhardt who authorised the final use of those weapons. In PTTSC if rick had not been “delayed” I’d be willing to bet even money he’d have never launched those missiles.

Please see other threads on this subject. Hunter’s orders were so rediculuously vague that Reinhardt followed them to the proverbial “T”. Reinhardt gave the order because his superior, who ordered him to use them, wasn’t there. If Rick had not given Reinhardt the order and authority to use them, Reinhardt wouldn’t have used them, hence delayed or not it was Hunter’s fault Reinhardt had the authority to use them. They both deserve prison for their actions.

Theodore Roosevelt did it several times.

Didn’t Roosevelt resign from his position (hardly comparable to Hunter’s) before entering the Spanish-American war?

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Posted: 10 June 2006 05:25 PM   [ # 13 ]  
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that is why I don’t post about energy transfers and protoculture.

It just set me off the wrong way.

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Posted: 11 June 2006 12:23 AM   [ # 14 ]  
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I guess Hunter was the type of admiral who led from the front lines.  Besides, he wasn’t the REAL admiral of the REF.  Lisa Hayes was, and she was safe and sound on board the SDF-3.

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Posted: 11 June 2006 07:39 AM   [ # 15 ]  
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Hunter’s orders were so rediculuously vague that Reinhardt followed them to the proverbial “T”. Reinhardt gave the order because his superior, who ordered him to use them, wasn’t there. If Rick had not given Reinhardt the order and authority to use them, Reinhardt wouldn’t have used them, hence delayed or not it was Hunter’s fault Reinhardt had the authority to use them. They both deserve prison for their actions.

Actually it was Rheinhardt who advocated the use of the NS during the council meeting. RH just acquiesced to the argument.  If he was actually present as overall commander, it is debatable he would have used them, whereas Rheinhardt was trigger happy.  You say Rick never thought/struggled about the use of the missile, but he personally went to test the weapon before the battle.  He talks about the whole “was Edwards trying to tell us something” moment discussing the possible effects of absolute power corrupting absolutely and all that.  PTTSC even shows that the use of NS was dependent upon the results of that test.  The test was so important he relieved perhaps his most experienced commander from arguably his best veritech squadron so that he could consult with Max about the NS. That’s heavy stuff for the use of a weapon, consulting with his most trusted wingman of 30 years.

It seems like you read only the limitations of the comic book, when in reality there were a lot of things going on between the frames.

Admiral Hunter failed to forcefully retake Earth three times.

Admiral Hunter has never been present in any of the retakings of Earth, so that is a fallacy.  All retaking attempts were never under his direct command.  Sure he may have been the overall commander of the structure but he wasn’t there to lead any of the action.  But from all other sources we have about RH, any campaign under his direct command has resulted in success… from his rescue of Lisa on Mars, through the Sentinels and the defeat of Edwards.

Didn’t Roosevelt resign from his position (hardly comparable to Hunter’s) before entering the Spanish-American war?

He resigned as Sec. of Navy, but he was the commander of his unit (were they called the Rough Riders?) during the war.

Good point by wrecks… RH from the very beginning was always the combat commander of the REF and Lisa was the admiral at the top.

P Thomassen… while commanding from the front is never a wise idea for a high ranking officer, seeing ones commanders at the front serves to inspire the men in battle.

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