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Watching Southern Cross
Posted: 19 February 2006 08:40 PM   [ # 31 ]  
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And I agree totally Hamel.

Any other comment by me would violate the TOU.

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Posted: 21 February 2006 06:56 PM   [ # 32 ]  
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.... there is room still over here in the not so far left corner ^_^  ^_^  ^_^ . Many of the members of the military dread the thought of the day that they will have to fire a weapon in anger. Doesnt mean they would hesitate to , but we know/knew that odds were that if we were shooting at something, that something probably would be shooting back. Thats something I had to consider before joining (and there was still a Cold War when I joined, it was winding down, but we never knew at what rate it truely was winding at), and I sure didnt want to get shot. I mean if I got shot and killed how could I harass every one with “I WANT MY BETA!!!!”, (I planned this phrase way in advance you know.) I dunno if anyone else here, really thought of the “glory” of the military, cant speak for them, we just had this little voice (or was it the rice krispies talking?) that told you that thats what you wanted to do. I do apprecited your view of cynicism on the military, for years it was stigmatic to be in the military for whatever reasons and that was transfered through generations . Frankly, if the militray was so popular and everyone want to be in it , I might be a little nervous to what the military was actually doing!!!  The military should be (to a small degree) misunderstood, I mean what perfectly sane individual would jump out of a perfectly good aircraft, in the middle of a bunch of people who want to shove pointy sticks in them??? Not the easiest concept to grasp…

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Posted: 21 February 2006 08:21 PM   [ # 33 ]  
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Southern Cross is by far my favourite part of the Robotech saga. The carracters might not be exactly material for any present day army, but quite well suited for an era when technology has advanced so much that a single battle unit has the capabilities of a small army. Your common soldier today would most likely not have the mental capacity to effectively operate Robotech mecca. So with the increased intelect of your soldiers you will get some less conventional personality types emerging as well. Also at a time of war the military is not too picky about the type of people they recruit into the armed forces. So the 15th is a very believable unit. But I must admit Bowie does get very irritating after a while. But anything in the world is better than having to listen to Lynn Minmei’s brain deadening, enormously irritating song every episode.

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Posted: 21 February 2006 11:43 PM   [ # 34 ]  
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Individual differences mean strength, and within a platoon there is often a lot of camaraderie and goofing off. What I’m saying is that the 15th was TOO goofy, and furthermore, Dana had little control over them. Especially Angelo. With him undermining her authority, and Dana herself continually bucking the authority of her superiors (and getting away with it, despite a line quoted to her at one point stating that “The punishment for insubordination is quite severe”), they were not a very effective unit. They didn’t know when to cut it out and do what they were told. The incident with the hostages was particularly bad… Dana was unwilling to kill the enemy due to some vague “feeling” based on her own pro-alien prejudice, and even admitted as such. As a result of her ineffective fighting, the hostages were taken by the Masters… not that she seemed too unduly upset. And surprisingly, no disciplinary action was taken… again, why?

  Because her superiors had even less control over her.


Michael

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Posted: 22 February 2006 08:45 AM   [ # 35 ]  
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....z_a, you summarized what I’ve always thought; only more eloquently.  I always thought that the 15th was a little too goofy to be an effective Infantry unit; and while many people here abhor Leonard, he was just a pragmatic military commander.  Overall, though, the Master’s Saga is still fun, and that’s why we watch Robotech. ^_^
....whamhammer, until this week I was also 11B, small world!  I’m enroute to a new AIT at FT Sam Houston, it’ll be a nice change of pace.

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Posted: 22 February 2006 12:41 PM   [ # 36 ]  
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Just the way it looks from the disillusioned far-left corner.

I’m curious, intending no offense, but is this code for “I don’t believe anything I hear from any one who doesn’t share my beliefs”? 

The word “disillusioned” caught my eye.  Just what “illusion” is it that you speak of?  Is it that of what your parents and society has presented you, or is it that which you have constructed through your own ignorance and misconceptions (of the military)?
I take it from your sentence that you are not inclined to believe any one who tries to tell you otherwise because you are disillusioned, and as such you are disinclined to believe anyone who is not disillusioned.

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Posted: 22 February 2006 02:24 PM   [ # 37 ]  
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Just thought I’d state my views on it as so many others have done

I’m glad you did.  All of this extra incite as to how the real Military works with the anicdotes to more firmly state the point has made me think about and appreciate Robotech more. :D

It’s too bad there wasn’t a forum devoted to all the vets sharing “War Stories” that are relivant to all 3 sagas of Robotech.  I’d read every one twice! ^_^

By the way, all you bastards who joined up, Thanks guys!  Because of you, I can walk around without my pants on every day! ^_^

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Posted: 22 February 2006 05:27 PM   [ # 38 ]  
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.........

  BTW Beef, I also dont walk around with your pants on!!!!! ^_^  ^_^

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Posted: 22 February 2006 10:37 PM   [ # 39 ]  
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pretty lame. southern cross was awful.


RAF has you guys dead to rights.

wink

watch people get bent out of shape about this post, too

“southern cross wasnt glamorous, no glory..but look at what it told us about the RT universe!”

from the perspective as a series, it was boring. I dont care what info it gave…whenever you make a film or show or whatever, your first 9 commandments are ” thou shalt not bore” . billy wilder said that.


billy wilder has southern cross dead to rights, too!

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Posted: 23 February 2006 08:14 AM   [ # 40 ]  
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...I’m re-classing to 91V (or in English, Respiratory Specialist)—-which means I gotta quit smoking cigarrettes -_-
    The AIT is 9 months long—-which will give me more time in America than I’ve had since September 12th.  There’s a link to my Ranger Class photo on my RT.com profile page.  I was skinnier then…. :rofl:

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Posted: 23 February 2006 10:13 AM   [ # 41 ]  
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Is there any canon info on what happened to Dana and the rest of the 15th before or during the Invid invasion?

It seems they just get waxed along with the rest of the Southern Cross.

-Blitz

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Posted: 23 February 2006 10:18 AM   [ # 42 ]  
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Is there any canon info on what happened to Dana and the rest of the 15th before or during the Invid invasion?

It seems they just get waxed along with the rest of the Southern Cross.

Yes, there is.  According to this:http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproduct.php?id=149 they evacuted along with a lot of others during the Invid Invasion.  You actually get to see her getting onboard a ship with Bowie as it lifts off.  Then in the Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, she is seen again as well.

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Posted: 23 February 2006 11:36 AM   [ # 43 ]  
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IMHO, the entire Robotech saga is good. Not just Macross Saga, Masters or New Generation. Why does it always have to be a competition on which opinion is better? Why is it always “this one sucks”? We’re all here b/c we love Robotech right?

That said, my outlook is that Macross had the best chance to make a good impression since a) it was first and therefore able to set the tone, and b) because it was the longest, which gave it more time to develop its characters. Though some of it isn’t very good, a large chunk of the Macross animation was considered quite good for its time. And though I find Rick and Minmei somewhat annoying characters, the rest in the series are great.

Southern Cross/Masters was the one that I first got hooked on, believe it or not. I kept missing Macross due to the timeslot the show was originally shown on, and it changed times just as Southern Cross started. Though I think this series gets off to a slow start and ends abruptly, it still has a lot going for it. It’s not my fave, as some here have indicated, but I think the plot is interesting, and it has its share of great characters (Angelo, Rolf, Sean, Louie, Zor, Nova) -and yes, some annoying ones (Dana). Also, SC probably has the best overall animation of the three shows, most likely because it was the newest of the three.

My fave is still Mospeada/New Generation. Despite the fact that it has probably the weakest animation overall, it starts slow, and is more episodic. I just fell in love with those characters, I guess. And I still think the Cyclone is the coolest mecha and the Invid the coolest enemy.

So why can’t we celebrate the entire series?

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Posted: 23 February 2006 04:26 PM   [ # 44 ]  
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The illusion I speak of is the glory-of-war propaganda often fed to the American public (and pretty much every other country I know of, regarding their military), which tries in various ways to recruit people or at least their support for the cause.  They try to make war seem glorious and honorable, or even fun—as if there was no better way to prove yourself a man than to march in uniform on foreign soil and stain it with blood, yours and theirs.  No matter how much people acknowledge that war IS fighting and killing, there seems to be this near-compulsion to put as brave and wonderful a face on it as possible, especially for the public.  Facts about number of fatalities are covered up, incidents of friendly fire and civilian casualties are buried as deep within the records as possible, photographers are shooed away from rows of flag-draped coffins before they can snap a shot.  What are we hiding, if war is so great?  What is it that makes killing a fine thing on a battlefield, but abhorrent in a gang war or… or a resistence movement?

Look, I’ve heard this before.  “We fight so you don’t have to.  We toe the line so you don’t have to.”  My freedom in this country isn’t bought or earned by you or anyone else.  It’s a RIGHT, I have it, you have, it the whole damn world has it, we just haven’t all realized it yet.  While fighting to protect that right for one group of people, you may remove it from another.  I’m conscious of that.  An awful lot of other people aren’t.  They may take their freedom for granted, forgetting that it is being bought day by day at the price of human lives as real as theirs.  I don’t forget that.  And while everyone else is just glad to sleep safe another day, I’m lying awake thinking about all the people who are dying in this fight, people who have the same rights as I do.  And it’s giving me honest-to-God nightmares.

So, if you think to make me feel guilty, don’t bother.  Already there.  I’m sorry people are dying to keep me free, and I wish it would stop.  There’s got to be another way.  Maybe someday, someone like me will find it, and people like you won’t have to fight anymore.

For now, we need people like you, much as I regret to admit it.  And whether you realize it or not, you need people like me, too.  Because soldiers aren’t the only ones who defend freedom.  Sometimes it’s the people who speak out against violence and brutality, standing up for equal rights and peaceful solutions, that manage to stop tyranny and oppression.  While you’re out fighting, freedom might start to erode from within.  And if it does, it’s people like me who will hold it together.  If that means, someday, I have to pick up a gun and defend my own home, that’s what will happen.  But it won’t be as part of the military.  It will be as a citizen, a free citizen, who’s made her own choice.

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Posted: 23 February 2006 06:16 PM   [ # 45 ]  
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..... P.O.V. Zent’, I dont think anyone here was trying to bash your P.O.V. , just state that they do have a role in society, and not an evil one at that. Yes, if were were in Utopia, no the military wouldnt be needed, but we arent. We live in Absurdastan, people want to kill people over drawings, and land, and soccer (football to you over the ponders) for Gods sake, and most of all for Gods sake.

  I have an interesting P.O.V. . I was National Guard, we had to be ready to do just about anything, from fight a war in another mans land, provide security inside our own, provide relief any way possible for our citizens in an emergency. We had the closest possibilty to quell a rebellion (I.E. Killing U.S. citizens) should it arise, people we may live next door to. It wouldve been the most traumatic thing I could think of doing to kill another American (not that killing anyone is a good thing). I would have been the one to have had to fight you Zent if you did pick up a gun I understand what you were saying (maybee a revolution). I cant imagine how it felt for those soldiers in New Orleans and outlying areas that did have to kill civilians that were enforcing their will upon the populace remaining by force of arms (and shooting at relief effort personell). There was a battalion of my old Division (29th I.D.) that was deployed, and they did have to shoot people. I dont envy them one bit. There were units that were in Iraq and had come back, and were sent there and were amazed that they had to shoot American citizens because of what those citizens were doing.

  I would also remind that many of the people that helped free ourselves from England were in the military before there was a U.S., that revolution for our “rights” was not only carried out by the populace , but by people who were in the military as well. We are not just the ones who enforce the Executive Branches authority, but we also have been the liberators of our own society as well, we do have a humanitarian side to us as well as a destructive side. Im not saying you should love us who are and have served because were or are in the military but we are humans and dont neccesarily just want to kill or be killed for our country/beliefs. Love/ hate us for who we are, just as much as we love you for being a caring person…

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Dacschund Squadron Leader (Weinnie One)
“D.O.L.—The hizzeat on repeat!”


Leader of “Disciples Of the Mother (Sammie) And Daughter (Annie)” = D.O.M.A.D.

I
WANT
MY
BETA!!!!!!!

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